Learning from a natural

Posted: August 23, 2011 in Uncategorized

For the past 6 weeks one of my regular wings has been a guy who in PUA terms would be described as a ‘natural’.

As I’m sure most of you know, in PUA terms a natural is any man who has good success at bedding women without ever having studied seduction community material. My wing has been going to nightclubs 3 times a week for the passed 10 years, hitting on many women each time he goes. He is now at the point were he can lay a girl once every three times he goes (this works out at about 1 fclose for every 20 approaches). He has fucked roughly 200 women in his lifetime (he is mid 20s now), and his highlights include multiple 3 sums and laying multiple girls in a single night.

This guy is on a London based PUA forum. He found it after someone told him it was where the top womanizers in London hang out to trade tips. He assumed everyone on there was having 3 sums and orgies with models and lapdancers on a regular basis. He thought he had found the keys to the gate to the garden of Eden when he discovered this forum. Then he started to meet wings from it, and reality delivered him a swift kick to the knackers. He ended up meeting a load of guys who would talk in jargon he didn’t understand (“What do you mean you SNL’d last night? Did you shag that girl or not?”), and generally, act weird.

I have seen him in action first hand as as such believe the circa 200 women figure. I’ve seen him leave with girls, and have had HB8s come up to me and ask where he is, saying, ‘I need him in my life”. Yes, he’s a confirmed natural.

Since naturals don’t know any pickup theory, the only way to learn from them is via osmosis. Watch what they do and assimilate. Here are some things I’ve noticed while observing him. I assume many of these points are true for many naturals.

  1. He doesn’t understand the need for pickup theory, and doesn’t think it helps. He honestly doesn’t understand why I’m not fucking a new woman almost every week. He sees I can talk to women, so he assumes all I then have to do is ask them to come home with me.
  2. He has plenty of AA / can’t approach every set. He sticks to single girls (1 sets) most of the time, with the odd 2 set. He rarely opens sets with 3 or more girls in them. Also he tends to wait for girls to walk by him or come and stand near him before opening them. He won’t generally make a big walk over to some girls to open them. In other words he goes for easy, low anxiety approaches. Many community guys pride themselves on making ‘heroic’ approaches. Like going direct on girls in coffee shops infront of loads of strangers, opening a 5 set of HB9/10s in a club, or opening a mixed set with 4 huge AMOGs and one HB in it. They think the fact that they can make these really difficult (in terms of how scary they are) approaches which most men wouldn’t dare to attempt should be enough to entitle them to get laid regularly. Many of these approach heroes never / rarely get laid. This is because daring approaches don’t mean much, what comes after the approach is much more important. And this is the reason this natural does get laid. Although he doesn’t make particularly bold approaches, you just don’t need to do this in order to get laid loads as long as you have good game after the approach.
  3. He has standards. He’s not afraid to tell a girl exactly what he likes in a woman. This causes many girls to call him arrogant, but it means he comes across as selective. He rejects plenty of girls.
  4. He has really solid body language. His body language is very solid and masculine, and despite making many ‘mistakes’ like crossing his arms a lot, he projects a good image in the club. The way he positions himself relative to the girls in the set is also very good too. He always seems to manage to end up leaning back on some sort of fixed object like a pillar with the girls huddled around him. The sub communication of this is great… it’s very much like they are trying to pull him. I need to observe how the sly fox maneuvers himself into this position.
  5. He goes into each set with full intent to SNL. He’s not just chatting or practising.  One of the first things he does in a set is establish logistics. If there are poor logistics for an SNL, he instantly ejects. Very efficient.
  6. He feels no need to win the girl over. If the girl is stood there talking to him, he just assumes the lay. He makes no verbal attempt to win her over. There are no magic lines spoken by him to get the girl. In short, he assumes attraction.

Stats since 1st August:
27 approaches
3 number closes
3 kiss closes
0 f closes

  1. Y says:

    Don’t focus on what he is doing now.

    Focus on the journey he took to where he is now.

  2. Marco Lee says:

    That’s the bad stuff right there… It’s like the “PUA” world is from an alien planet with those jargons involved. I tell my guys to decrease the use of pua jargons. They’d have better and more natural conversations with people.

    p.s. More power on your learning! 🙂

  3. Bhodisatta says:

    Something clicked when I read you say “honestly can’t see why I”m not taking girls home”. The PUA community in some ways makes such a big deal of things. For naturals it’s so… natural. They act with total congruence and what they expect to happen comes to pass. However when they say that things are simple they’re wrong. They had a very different journey to get where they are and naturals rarely understand the wrecked inner-game perspective of the average pua-wannabe. Acting with total congruence only works after you’ve had large numbers of positive feedback to embed it. Which traps you in a negative feedback cycle. Things are very hard for the non-natural. For a long time. Then eventually very easy.

    • betatopua says:

      My take on it is that picking girls up is either one of the hardest things to do or trivially easy.

      If you have a personality that girls find attractive (ie you’re an alpha) you literally just turn up at a social gathering of some form, maybe make some approaches. You’ll pull by just being yourself. What could be easier than turning up to a bar / club and just acting like you naturally do? It’d be harder not to do this than to do this almost.

      The story is very different if you’re personality isn’t attractive to women. If you turn up and act like yourself you almost have no chance of pulling. If you put a lot of conscious effort into gaming girls you’ll increase your chances but you’ll have to work hard and the success you see will still be small.

      It’s not quite a binary thing like that (ie you’re either attractive to all women or to none) but that isn’t a massive exaggeration of how female to male attraction actually is.

      Naturals have had an attractive personality since they were young, so from their point of view you do simply turn up at the club, act like yourself, then pull. This is why it confuses them so much when we discuss game.

      Despite this I do sometimes think that some guys build getting laid up into this almost impossible achievement, and this is counter productive.

      You get naturals and guys who have become PUAs so long ago that they have forgotten how hard it was for them to get good saying being successful from cold approach is easy. Stats on how often the average guy gets laid show just how hard it can be for men to get laid.

      • Bhodisatta says:

        I’m sure if there were honest stats available it’d show the vast majority of men living in near total celibacy for most of their lives. Men in Victorian times got more pussy than men these days. Excluding the 1% of alphas fucking all the women, that is.

      • betatopua says:

        I don’t think it’s quite that bad. About 40% of men are in relationships, and so many of them will be getting laid regularly.

        To put a figure on it, I remember reading a CDC stat on Roissy’s blog. Only 10.4% of men has sex with 3 or women in a 12 month period. That puts me in the top 10% of men in terms of number of sexual partners. Scary.

  4. […] this, after picking up up two girls there and having a threesome with them the previous weekend my natural wing convinces me to spend a Saturday night […]

  5. […] time I realized that this was something I should be doing to help me approach was when I met my natural wing. Despite cold approaching girls in clubs for a decade now (with a lot of success), he still gets […]

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