Online dating observations and tips

Posted: September 13, 2012 in Uncategorized

I haven’t been having a great time with online dating at the moment, mainly because my heart just hasn’t been in it, but partly because of some of the things I’ll mention below. Here are some observations I’ve made from my time on online dating. Some my be helpful, other stuff just interesting trivia.

Time Wasters

There are many time wasters online. Girls that are basically using it as a glorified facebook, soaking up the male attention. I’d say this is around least 30% of girls. To avoid this, go for the number fast (I do it on about my 3rd message to them), and then try and get them out on a date fast (after a 15 / 20 minute phone chat).

If they still seem unsure after that, or won’t give you their number when they first ask, assume it’s either a shit test or that they’re time wasters. Just say something like, “You seem like a cool girl, but seem shy about giving me your number / meeting up. Although I understand, I’m on this site to date people face to face. If you change your mind send me your number / text me when you’ll be free later this week and I’ll take it from there”. Don’t phrase this message rudely or make it seem like she’s pissed you off, because if it’s a shit test you’ll fail it by doing so. At the same time, stick to your guns. Don’t contact her again unless she complies with your request. It’s really not worth your time as there are plenty of girls in a big city looking for dates.

Moving fast

You have to move fast. When I say fast I mean you should be looking for a time period of no more than about 10 days between first message and first date. Try for less if possible, but without coming off as desperate to get her out on a date. Girls are getting loads of messages online, and getting loads of dates (unless they are time wasters). Cold approach is a different ball game. Although after you’ve opened them they may want to go on a date with you, and will have on some level been open to meeting a guy, it’s doubtful they’re going out on loads of dates. They were just lucky to run into a man worth going on a date with. Girls online are very actively dating, with many of them going on 3 dates a week. I’ve heard of girls going on up to 5 dates in a week, sometimes doing 2 in one day. And I thought PUAs were bad…

The point here is that leaving too many gaps between messages or setting up dates will mean you are quickly forgotten and will be ignored, as other potential suitors quickly take your place. A guy she’s met face to face and likes will shoot up in terms of her priorities over guys she’s just talking to online / texting. Also the longer you leave it the more chance there is that she meets a guy she really likes, and so decides to stop going on dates.

The practical lessons from this is:

  • Don’t leave long gaps when replying to her messages to seem aloof, this is not the same as texting after a cold approach. It’s possible to number close over an exchange of 3/4 messages each which happens over the course of 60 minutes one night. Aim for this.
  • Set up a phone call as soon as possible after you get her number. Potentially even as soon as you get it.
  • Go for setting up a date during the phone call or by texting her the next day after the call.
  • Set up the date for as soon after the call as possible. Next day is a bit much. Obviously do this without coming across as being needy. Just because you arrange a date for 2 nights time doesn’t mean you have to come across as desperate.

I’m constantly breaking my own advice on this at the moment, out of laziness. The result it many missed opportunities as I realise I haven’t texted a girl whose number I got a week ago, or I take 3 days to message a girl back online and they go cold.

Certain times of the year are better than others

Online dating has seasonal fluctuations in terms of how effective it is. I’ve found August / September to be tough because girls are going on holiday around this time. I keep getting told, “BTW I’m on holiday for 2 weeks this Thursday” in the same message as the girl gives me her number. This never works. You can’t really pick up an online dating lead after two weeks. These leads have always died on me. This happened to 3 girls I number closed in a row earlier this month. In contrast to this late January and February are meant to be ideal (never been on a dating site during these months so just going off what I’ve read). This is for a few reasons:

  • Many girls break up from unhappy relationships around the festive time
  • Many people think new year = new start, so girls use the changing of the year as a catalyst to find a new man
  • Valentine’s Day is in February. Girls hate being alone then.

So the perfect stratagey: sarge from the comfort of your own home in the colder months, and move it to the street / clubs in the summer when it’s warmer and girls are wearing less clothes.

Use a phone call to build comfort

Although it’s not 100% necessary, I think it’s always a good idea to chat to the girl for about 15 minutes on the phone after you get her number. Girls can be wary of meeting  a guy off the internet for the first time. Just a short phone chat can make you feel like more of a ‘real’ person to them. Also, as long as you don’t fuck the call up, it will put you ahead of all the other guys who are just chatting to her online / texting her. You’re more real than them because she’s heard your voice.

I haven’t been doing this lately, and so less numbers are converting to dates.

Always keep a strong pipeline

You may get to a point where you’re talking to  a few girls online who you think are all good prospects. At this point, you may well decide that you don’t need to message or follow up with any more  girls, thinking you have enough good leads to keep you busy. This is a mistake. Three strong prospects can disappear fast online. That’s just the nature of online game. You don’t know how serious they are until you’ve met them. Also, when you meet them they may turn out to be a lot less attractive than their profile pictures led you to believe. In this case they may no longer be a viable prospect in your eyes.

Until you’ve met a few girls and have decided they are strong prospects, keep the pace up with the messaging of new girls. Keeping the pipeline going also fits in with the moving fast thing. Don’t keep a number of girls on ‘hold’ as you try and wait to make sure the ones you end up on dates with are the hottest / easiest. Putting girls on hold as you wait for other options to come through breaks the pipeline and girls will just drop off your radar because you aren’t moving fast enough.

Keep forging ahead arranging dates at the pace I previously talked about. Then if better prospects come through, cancel dates you already have with less attractive girls. Harsh I know, but your in this for your own interests.

I’ve been making this mistake a lot. I’m limiting myself to two online dates a month, and so I want to make sure I get the best possible two girls out on dates. This leads me to keeping a few  girls on the back burner burner by telling them I want I date but am busy at the moment, whilst I wait to see if one of the hotter girls I’m talking to will go on a date with me. I come off as so indecisive when I do this. From now on I’m going to be setting up dates with any girl who is at least a HB6. I’ll still try and push to get the 7s/8s out, and if this happens cancel on the 6s.

Being tall probably really helps online

I’m (almost) completely honest about my height online. I put it as being 5’10” (what difference does an inch make…). I’m sure if I was 6ft+ I’d do better. There are two reasons for this. Firstly, this is a really easy way for girls to filter guys out online. Secondly, I have noticed a disproportionate number of women online are above average height for girls. The average height for a woman in the UK is about 5’4″, yet I’d guesstimate the average height for a girl on POF is about 5’6″. You get loads of 5’9″ women too, which for a girl is almost a giant. Also many of the hotteer girls are really tall.

My theory behind there being so many tall girls online is that taller girls find it harder to get a suitable man. Girls pretty much always want a guy taller than them. Often even when they’re wearing heels. This means girls who are quite a bit above average height are going to have less men to chose from. Only around 15% of men in the west are over 6ft tall (although each generation is getting progressively taller, with the average male height in the UK set to hit 6ft within a couple of generations. I thought all the young lads in clubs looked like giants…), which means a 5″9′ girl probably doesn’t have that many men to chose from. Even fewer if she’s very attractive and so has very high standards. I think this possible lack of choice means that tall attractive women have to resort to online dating to help improve their prospects.

The hotter girls are often from smaller towns

I’ve found this to be true when living in London, but it’s probably the same where ever you’re in a large, affluent city. Most of  the hottest girls that visit my profile don’t live in London. They’ll live in towns / small cities in the out lying counties: Kent, Hertfordshire, Buckinghamshire, Essex. I consider these girls too far away to date.

I think the reason for all this is that many men who have high value traits such as drive, ambition and a spirit for adventure tend to be drawn to London like moths to the flame. The rest of the UK just can’t compete with London in terms of excitement and career opportunities. I’ve often had women from the small towns / cities near london who I meet in clubs complain to me about the men who live in their area, and how they don’t compare favorably to London men. I’m guessing this is because most of the best young men from the surrounding area get drawn to London, leaving the less driven and ambitious behind.

I remember when I was in a small town near Birmingham for an engagement party a couple of years back with my then girl friend. The men I met at the party seemed like OK blokes, but they did all lack something that many guys I meet in London have. They had all lived in that little town all their life, and would probably die their. They lived within their comfort zones permanently. They just seemed to have little vigour about them.

All this leads to hot girls who live just outside London to turn to online dating and check out London men, because they just aren’t impressed with the local dating pool.

  1. MikeG says:

    I’ve dabbled a lot in online dating myself and found a lot of the same observations

    Moving fast

    This is something I need to start improving on a lot. Especially setting up dates asap. Reflecting back Im blowing opportunities by relying on building comfort on text over a long period which is stupid and lazy on my part. I need to start fucking taking charge and setting up dates right away.

    “Certain times of the year are better than others”

    This is huge. In my area June July and most of August are awful. I mean god awful for online dating. Everyone goes on vacation, the sun does set until after 8pm so everyone is out doing things. Its the perfect recipe for lack of woman online. Id say winter is the best because its cold, sun sets early, and women (and myself) are more likely to be on the computer.

    “Use a phone call to build comfort”

    Its funny, I started online dating with always calling then stopped because I found i was able to still get dates without calling. I haven’t been calling at all lately but theres no doubt you’re better off as long as it isn’t awkward.

    “Being tall probably really helps online”

    Not probably, absolutely helps online. Height is the only thing that woman will usually list as a physical requirement. Its funny because historically men were always considered pigs and shallow for wanting women who have big tits and are thin but women always listed height and will disqualify guys off of the bat for height online. If your dating website allows you to search keywords type in “tall” and see how many hits come back.

    Not that along ago I was reading a post from a guy who was 6’4″ on a pua forum and was getting a lot of girls online. In fact he just bedded a really good looking girl who did part time modeling and she actually approached him online just for sex(granted he was good looking and had a well written profile). He posted screenshots from his phone on their conversation and she mention she loved tall men and he was just her type physically. I thought to myself “Fuck me for being 5’9″” But i shouldn’t complain…..i could be shorter where Id really have more difficulties.

    At the end of the day picking up a tall girl online seems to be fucking impossible if you aren’t pretty tall. I mean if you have really high social proof in your profile anythings possible but outside of that its literally been impossible for me. I think i’ve number closed 1 girl who was 5’9″ and there was no attraction from her end. I only got the number close by humor.

    • betatopua says:

      True on the height thing. many, many girls mention tall on their profile. No one mentions abs, a few people mention good looks, most girls mention height. And yes, I see the double standard. The only reason I used the word ‘probably’ is because I’ve never experimented by upping my stated height from 5’10” to 6’2″ and seeing the effect. If I did I’d obviously never be able to meet the girls so I’d be wasting my time (and it would be a lot of time.. I’d have to do 100 messages at each height to get a good idea I think).

      I’m probably going to get some platform soled shoes next month:

      I’ll be 6ft in them so I’ll see the effect it has on cold approach, but I might even whack my online height up to 6ft and see what happens. I won’t take my shoes off until we’re in bed together 😉

      • Jim Bacon says:

        It will be interesting to see what effect, if any, platform soled shoes have on your results.

        Although I’m probably getting the shoes next month, I won’t run the online trial for about another 8 months. I should be in a new job by then so I’ll have enough cash to go on lots of dates.

        I’m going to do 100 messages with my height down as 6ft and wearing the elevator shoes on dates, then 100 with my real height and normal shoes. I’ll log #s in terms of replies to opening messages, dates and fcloses. 100 is probably on the low side for a sample, but if there’s a really huge difference than that will be interesting.

  2. MikeG says:

    Wow they are really high…..personally I wouldn’t wear platforms that high….id rather be in the 2″ range max which is a very good boost. Thats the height increase tall boots give you which is a lot. 3 1/4″ is really pushing it. Last thing i’d want is a girl thinking you’re wearing platforms.

  3. GunsofApollo says:

    Probably won’t make too much of a difference. I have only gotten one date, one lay, and 5 numbers from online dating over this past summer. I’m 6’2″ and have a decent profile, and the lay came from a girl who messaged me.

    • betatopua says:

      You mean the height thing won’t help me online? How many messages did you send? IIRC you don’t live in a large city. I live in London, and in London there must be literally thousands of women in the right age range for me with active POF profiles. With the numbers being so high here, increases in your attractiveness can make huuuuge differences to your POF success rate. Like when I first went on my lay rate was nearly 1 in 75. I don’t know what it is now but it’s much lower. Maybe 1 in 40, and this includes loads of messages sent to try out new techniques (which failed), plus me rejecting some women I ended up meeting. If I stuck to a tried and true approach and always followed up properly I think I could get it to 1 in 30. With a height increase even lower. I think it’ll make a noticeable difference.

    • MikeG says:

      I completely disagree Gunsofappollo, height matters ….and this is even bigger deal online more than real life. You will actually get disqualified immediately from a large segment of women online right off of the bat if you’re a certain height. Essentially the shorter you are the more women are going to disqualify you…..its a fact that happens online dating all the time. This happens in a club as well but its much easier to get around. Just like i’d say gaming really good looking girls in a club is generally easier than online since it takes no balls to email a girl and they get flooded with them.

      Everytime theres a thread on height on various forums, theres always a guy who will post “I’m tall and height doesn’t help me get laid” It’s kind of comical to think a major attraction factor like that wouldn’t help a guy get laid. I’m not saying being 6’2″ gets you girls because by itself it doesn’t. But being 6’2″ will essentially get you pass a giant disqualifier. At the end of the day you have a wider range of girls to fuck over myself because of your height. You may not have any advantage over me if a girl is 5’2″ but if she’s 5’9″ the odds are massively in your favor. I would have to have so really good social proof to get her over you.

      Just as a test i’ve tried to game taller girls than me online and so far its been impossible. I can’t even get number off of a girl thats 5’11” and below average in looks(I’ve tested this out a lot) but I can get 5 numbers in a week without much effort from an equivalent looking girls that are shorter than myself.

  4. Jim Bacon says:

    “You seem like a cool girl, but seem shy about giving me your number / meeting up. Although I understand, I’m on this site to date people face to face. If you change your mind send me your number / text me when you’ll be free later this week and I’ll take it from there.”

    I’m actually going to send this verbatim to a girl right now. She won’t give me her phone number or add me on Facebook. I half suspect that I’m dealing with a 13 year old who has put up a fake profile. Oh well, ball is in that person’s court now.

    • betatopua says:

      I think timewasters / people who aren’t really that interested won’t respond to that message. Girls who are interested but thought they needed to play hard to get will probably reply.

      I’ve seen it time and time again. Girls who are genuinely interested in you never make it hard for the two of you to get together.

      • Jim Bacon says:

        This girl did reply to me after I sent that message. But she still didn’t give me her phone number or Facebook (I asked for the Facebook as it is a good test of whether they are a real profile).

        She just asked a question about something that I had written on my profile. So I politely reiterated the whole “give me a number / facebook or the conversation is done” message.

        I do think you’ve saved me having a long volley back and forth with this girl that ends up in her ego being tickled and me being frustrated.

        The one girl I have had off POF, actually messaged me first after I looked at her profile. To be honest I find the amount of effort required for POF game annoying. Even though I am too sick to go out to bars/clubs at the moment.

        Maybe I should just go through and look at loads of girls profiles on a smartphone going to and from work and then just message the ones who message me after I’ve looked at their profiles?

  5. betatopua says:

    You can email me your profile if you want me to have a look, and in return I’ll give you mine. Also if you want me to look over any message exchanges I’m happy to.

    From my perspective online is the most time effiecent, but also most boring, way to get laid. You just need to remember not to invest too much effort in setting up a date (2 minutes to scan a profile and compose a message, go for number on third message, ignore her if she’s cagey about giving up the number). This saves you from time wasters.

    It looks like I may well have a date with an HB7 as a result of sending the “Will you go out with me?” message to 10 girls. Just waiting for her to confirm exact time / place via text. I’d say I invested less than 30 minutes on getting this.

    Also if you want loads of girls messaging you and viewing your profile to get some warmer leads and you have firefox web browser I can help you…

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