At What Age Does A Man’s Sexual Market Value Peak?

Posted: October 2, 2014 in Uncategorized

As I get older I am starting to look to the future. When I do a question, or maybe a concern, comes to mind. What is the expiration date on game?

By expiration date I mean the approximate age at which a man can no longer get women in their sexual prime through game alone (so excluding the value adds of wealth and fame). To answer this question you need to work out what a man’s sexual market value peak is. From there his ability to game prime SMV women into bed will decrease, and not too long after this peak he will stop being able to do this altogether. I think I’ve mainly started thinking about this because since turning 32 I’ve found it almost impossible to match with decent mid 20s girls on Tinder. It seems many of them must have their upper age limit set at 31 (I’m going to cheat next year by saying I’m 28 on my profile. Fuck you, Tinder).

When thinking about this I remembered a graph of male and females SMV by age on The Rationale Male (full article). I’m now going to talk through the graph. I’ll compare the author’s view on the matter with both my own opinions, and also the opinions which are commonly held within modern society in general.

First we have female SMV. The author has women’s SMV peaking at 23, and shows women being very desirable from age 15 through to age 30. It shows women retaining a modicum of attractiveness until their mid thirties, after which time they sink into such a deep sexual abyss that they may as well be asexual.

This goes against the modern social narrative. This narrative is wrong. Social ‘scientists’ and feminists may lie about this, but my boner and the boners of other men point to the truth. The Rationale Male is correct in this. As much as modern society thinks it’s monstrous to suggest that girls start becoming sexual attractive a 15, this is the truth. They’ve usually got decent breasts by that age, and their hips are starting to widen to give the waist : hip ratio that men are programmed to find attractive. I still remember bumping into my next door neighbours daughter and her friend in a club when I was 21 and they were 15. They looked very attractive and got a lot of attention from guys in their late 20s and 30s. Despite this I can still see that girls aren’t at their sexual peak yet in their late teens. Some of them still have childlike faces, can be plagued with acne, and sometimes their bodies aren’t yet fully developed into a womanly shape.

The graph shows that women hit their SMV peak at 23. I’d agree with this. In their early 20s women are fully developed, but yet show no negative signs of ageing. The collagen in their skin is still intact. This keeps them pert, even if they’re carrying a little excess fat. They have clear, wrinkle free skin soft, thick hair and bright eyes. All the features which signal fertility to men. Although mainstream society does allow that women are sexually attractive at this age (although I can see a time when many men my be shamed for finding college age girls attractive), it mistakenly claims they don’t peak at this age.

The mainstream media seems to constantly push the idea that women peak in their 30s. If you were able to compile a list of the most wanked too women on the planet you would quickly see this is not the case. The ugly truth of the matter is that women start to visibly decline in their late 20s. By her early 30s most women are at best a 6. I’ve dated and even fucked a few women of this age. Being very attractive at this age is the exception, not the rule. I’ve often heard guys say that their are loads of very attractive women in their 30s. It wouldn’t surprise me if many of these guys actually mistake women in the 27 – 29 age range for being in their 30s. The norm is that women age really badly in their 30s. The wall hits them hard. By their 40s it’s rare that a women will have any significant remaining value on the sexual market. A lot for red pill guys celebrate this fact. I mourn it as a tragedy. If women were hot right through into their 40s, the percentage of women on the market who are sexually attractive would be far higher. For any guy with decent game this would be a hugely positive thing.

beyoung

britt-ekland-shared-picture-764508865 The tragedy of ageing

Then there’s the male part of the graph. This is where I disagree with the Rational Male. The graph shows a man’s value as quite low when he’s in his teens, with a rapid rise when the early 20s are reached. This bit I agree with. In their teens most boys look like… well boys. Unlike girls who look like they’re ready to reproduce at this age, boys often don’t look masculine enough for this. You’ll often hear a girl says she wants a man not a boy. You can understand after hearing this that a lad who can’t yet grow facial hair won’t be physically masculine enough for a girl yet. When you add to this that most guys of this age are terrified of girls, you can easily see that a teenage boy has low sexual market value.

The graph shows a steady rise throughout the 20s until it starts to get close to vertical at 30. The peak for men is shown at 38, and a man is shown to hold a very high SMV all the way to 45 when it drops off, before hitting the wall at around 50. This is where I disagree. I think most people in the game related mansophere over value social status and undervalue looks when it comes to attracting the opposite sex. Take a moderately successful man who is 29 years old. He’s a 8/10 in looks at this point. Throughout his 30s and forties he climbs the career ladder, maybe even making C – level exec in his early to mid 40s. At this point he has far higher social status, but he’s now a 5 or 6 in terms of looks, depending on how well he’s looked after himself over the years. Based on the graph the older version of this man in his early 40s can significantly out pull his 29 year old self. If he was sleeping with 8s when he was 29, age 43 he should be banging 10s. His SMV has almost doubled. Although I have no experience of being a 29 year old guy, I can plainly see this is not true. The only way this would happen is if the guy was really physically out of shape and lacking in game at 29, and he spends hos 30s learning game and getting in killer shape.

I think the graph is wishful thinking for men. Although at 38, the graph’s peak for a man, men usually have a good a balance of worldly success and some remaining youth as their ever going to have, it’s just too old for the peak. For this to be a man’s peak 23 year old girls would have to be regularly banging 38 year old guys. This does happen (ask Krauser!), but it’s the exception, not the rule. Many girls this age would consider 38 to be a bit old. Most guys this age have a beer belly and look like someone’s dad. I’m not saying this can’t be overcome with game. What I am saying is that a guy of 29 with good game will out pull a 38 year old guy with good game.

In my mind a man’s peak is in his late 20s to early 30s. At this age he’ll be old enough to be confident and worldly. He’ll have started to make something of himself career wise (or if he hasn’t be probably never will). He should have a moderate amount of money to spend. He’ll still have youthful good looks. I really wish the graph was correct. It would mean my best years are yet to come. I’ll experience a fast rise in attractiveness over the next 6 years, and then have another 6 years of fairly high value after that. This would mean over a decade of being able to do better with women than I am now. This is a nice thought, but I think it’s just wishful thinking dreamed up by the manosphere. My gut tells me that my best years are behind me.

Advertisements
Comments
    • betatopua says:

      My take on this after reading the article and taking a look through her recent photos and those in her modeling days is this. Around 5 years ago, maybe less she was a 9. Now she’s a 7. This means in the space of a few short years she’s gone from effortlessly being able to get any man she wants to losing high value men to younger girls on a regular basis. She’s never experienced this before. This crept up on her. Now she’s realised this she’s panicked. This has caused her to focus on every instance of older guys dating much younger women.

      As I said 15 year age gaps happen in dating, but how common is it? Is it really easier for a 38 year old man to score a hot 23yr old than that same man at 29 / 30?

      For now this is theoretical for me. I will find out first hand over the next 6 years (I’m 32). And Krauser is my ‘canary down the mine’ to see how long game can keep a man in young women, so to speak.

  1. Zelcorpion says:

    I grew up and was surrounded by a bunch of Naturals and notorious womanizers without even the official knowledge of Game. Practically all of them are now at their peak being end 30s. I have experienced it myself.

    But the thing is this – IF (big IF) a man has knowledge of Game and studies it diligently in his 20s & early 30s – then yes – he can hit on the widest field of very young hot girls in their prime. While 20-25% of 18-22 year-olds will be fine dating a 40-year-old guy who is in shape, the majority of over 75% will not. The younger Game-aware version of end 20s to early 30s will have better chances. But the truth is that it only works because of the scientific and structured Game-knowledge out there.

    My Natural friends had less sex-appeal in their end 20s than in their end 30s now. They are more successful now, more masculine, partly in better shape and more muscle-mass, two of them are fathers & married (which does not stop them fooling around on business travels). They are more well-rounded men and thus succeed more despite the fact that they have aged out of a part of the younger female age group – they succeed en masse with the ones left.

    I agree with Rollo’s graph, though the graph is a theoretical one for men who are moderately successful, don’t grow fat and become more self-confident. The average graph would have to take into account the obesity epidemic and would not make sense.

    Roosh has talked with a bunch of aging Players and they all said that a man with massive Game can keep up his end 30s attraction value up until around age 43 (a plateau so to say). Then it starts dropping and it gets tougher to attract women in the prime.

    On the other hand I have seen super-attractive guys in their end 40s able to easily attract mid 20s girls for sex & dating. Daily meditation/yoga, sport, motor-bike, millionaire, health-food-freak, triathlons, study of Game literature – those were the things one of those guys did. Just compare how Keanu Reeves looked like with 40 pounds plus and how he looks now aged 50.

  2. krauserpua says:

    I think the SMV graph is close to true, but wishful thinking to tell the manosphere what they want to hear. If I could put my current brain into a body ten or fifteen years younger my results would treble overnight.

    The real trade-off is declining physicality as you age vs an increase in gravitas, worldliness and two crucial game skills: (i) spotting the right signals so you know when /how to act on the Maybes and Yes girls (ii) reference experiences accumulating that you can and ought to fuck young girls.

    I started game late so my increases quickly outpaced my declining body. I think a guy starting Game aged twenty would peak at 28. But this is hypothetical because I’ve never seen a natural in real life. I don’t think they exist.

  3. John Dory says:

    This^ I am pulling higher and better quality in my 30s than in my twenties, but that is only because now I have the balls to approach and not fuck it up. You just have to approach higher numbers to find the hot girls, that are also yes girls, that also don’t mind older guys.

    Check out the link below to a more realistic graph. I know its only a dating website but the data doesn’t lie as they say:

    http://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2014/sep/28/seven-secrets-of-dating-from-the-experts-at-okcupid

  4. Mr Zero Man says:

    The assumption in Rollo’s graph is that as a man you are more succesful & have higher status into your 30s and 40s. Obviously this doesn’t apply to all men as has been pointed out. It’s wishful thinking for the men of the manosphere to identify with older succesful men when in reality the manosphere attracts exactly the opposite type of men.
    The other parameter that isn’t taken into account is the subjective aspect of status. Say you are a coke dealer. For some girls that’s DHV, for others it’s DLV. The same if you are say a cop. Or say you are very wealthy and wear expensive suits and a rolex – for some girls that acts as an aphrodisiac, for other, more bohemian and idealistic girls, it’s a turn-off. Different ‘tribes’ have different codes to designate status. So the male SMV/Age graph for each tribe would be different – e.g. athletes would peak much younger than artists.
    My hypothesis is that the younger player has more leeway for moving between different ‘tribes’ to pick up their women. And gradually the older he gets the more restricted he is in moving outside his tribe, it appears a lot more incongruent if he does (e.g. old men in clubs mentioned above). Random cold-approach would therefore become harder, and older players would gradually end up gaming in what amounts to social circle / ecosystem style game in niche areas where age difference isn’t so incongruent. Becoming pickier and only approaching “my-type-of-girl”, assuming it’s not weaseling, is somewhere in between young player and old player, it’s a sign of the leeway gradually becoming thinner.

  5. Mike G says:

    “This is a nice thought, but I think it’s just wishful thinking dreamed up by the manosphere. My gut tells me that my best years are behind me.”

    The problem with this is you started game late if I recall(as most men). That’s skews everything as krauser said. If you weren’t doing well with women at 28 do to inexperience then you’re SMV should theoretically be higher at 38 assuming you continue to put in the work and progress.

    Late 20’s are going to theoretically be the highest SMV for men. That’s a no brainer IMO. I think the character Christian Grey was written in as a tall, white, handsome 27/28 year old billionaire seducing a 21 year old for a reason.

    The question is can you continue to use experience to outpace your age? Think of a professional boxer in their 30’s. They are physical declining every year but can they minimize this with experience and putting even more work into their training/diet? Countless examples of people doing a lot more difficult shit than game and overcoming general statistics. I’m not trying to give a mental masturbation pep talk but realistically you should be able to continue to raise your SMV with experience if your willing to put the effort in. Now if you can’t progress then yes, you’re best years are behind you.

    • Zelcorpion says:

      For the wide majority of men the peak is in the late 30s. With some guys as they accumulate more money, fame or a position they might actually reach a higher top even with formal Game knowledge early on. Also most men don’t come into that perception of their worth until that age.

      But of course the theoretical peak is around late 20s to 30s due to one simple reason: We are all after the same 18-23 top demographic of girls and the majority prefer guys only slightly to 10 years older to them. Does not matter if 20% are also into guys 35+ – you have a harder time with 70% of them than if you were 28.

      And that peak is theoretical because it assumes that you learn Game in your teens or early 20s and don’t spend your 20s in LTRs while trying to be faithful. Those are a lot of ifs.

      But we can all circle-jerk about our theoretical peaks – the truth is that if you start learning Game at age 40 you might reach your personal peak at age 44. Achievements are all subjective and relative. The most important part is when you might achieve your personal peak.

  6. Zelcorpion says:

    http://therationalmale.com/2014/10/13/validation-hunting-the-jenny-bahn-epiphany/ Rollo has a new post now also referring the topic here.

    “Obviously a more youthful man is in better physical shape when he’s younger, and if all we were considering was short term mating prospects and the Alpha Fuck side of feminine hypergamy this graph would look much different.”

    He correctly identifies that the graph would look different if only Alpha fucks was accounted for – in addition to the hot age-group of 18-23yo. The peak of 38 years for a man takes into account Beta bucks and his attraction value among all female age groups of any sexual validity.

Leave a Reply

Fill in your details below or click an icon to log in:

WordPress.com Logo

You are commenting using your WordPress.com account. Log Out / Change )

Twitter picture

You are commenting using your Twitter account. Log Out / Change )

Facebook photo

You are commenting using your Facebook account. Log Out / Change )

Google+ photo

You are commenting using your Google+ account. Log Out / Change )

Connecting to %s