Posts Tagged ‘technique’

Learning from a natural

Posted: August 23, 2011 in Uncategorized

For the past 6 weeks one of my regular wings has been a guy who in PUA terms would be described as a ‘natural’.

As I’m sure most of you know, in PUA terms a natural is any man who has good success at bedding women without ever having studied seduction community material. My wing has been going to nightclubs 3 times a week for the passed 10 years, hitting on many women each time he goes. He is now at the point were he can lay a girl once every three times he goes (this works out at about 1 fclose for every 20 approaches). He has fucked roughly 200 women in his lifetime (he is mid 20s now), and his highlights include multiple 3 sums and laying multiple girls in a single night.

This guy is on a London based PUA forum. He found it after someone told him it was where the top womanizers in London hang out to trade tips. He assumed everyone on there was having 3 sums and orgies with models and lapdancers on a regular basis. He thought he had found the keys to the gate to the garden of Eden when he discovered this forum. Then he started to meet wings from it, and reality delivered him a swift kick to the knackers. He ended up meeting a load of guys who would talk in jargon he didn’t understand (“What do you mean you SNL’d last night? Did you shag that girl or not?”), and generally, act weird.

I have seen him in action first hand as as such believe the circa 200 women figure. I’ve seen him leave with girls, and have had HB8s come up to me and ask where he is, saying, ‘I need him in my life”. Yes, he’s a confirmed natural.

Since naturals don’t know any pickup theory, the only way to learn from them is via osmosis. Watch what they do and assimilate. Here are some things I’ve noticed while observing him. I assume many of these points are true for many naturals.

  1. He doesn’t understand the need for pickup theory, and doesn’t think it helps. He honestly doesn’t understand why I’m not fucking a new woman almost every week. He sees I can talk to women, so he assumes all I then have to do is ask them to come home with me.
  2. He has plenty of AA / can’t approach every set. He sticks to single girls (1 sets) most of the time, with the odd 2 set. He rarely opens sets with 3 or more girls in them. Also he tends to wait for girls to walk by him or come and stand near him before opening them. He won’t generally make a big walk over to some girls to open them. In other words he goes for easy, low anxiety approaches. Many community guys pride themselves on making ‘heroic’ approaches. Like going direct on girls in coffee shops infront of loads of strangers, opening a 5 set of HB9/10s in a club, or opening a mixed set with 4 huge AMOGs and one HB in it. They think the fact that they can make these really difficult (in terms of how scary they are) approaches which most men wouldn’t dare to attempt should be enough to entitle them to get laid regularly. Many of these approach heroes never / rarely get laid. This is because daring approaches don’t mean much, what comes after the approach is much more important. And this is the reason this natural does get laid. Although he doesn’t make particularly bold approaches, you just don’t need to do this in order to get laid loads as long as you have good game after the approach.
  3. He has standards. He’s not afraid to tell a girl exactly what he likes in a woman. This causes many girls to call him arrogant, but it means he comes across as selective. He rejects plenty of girls.
  4. He has really solid body language. His body language is very solid and masculine, and despite making many ‘mistakes’ like crossing his arms a lot, he projects a good image in the club. The way he positions himself relative to the girls in the set is also very good too. He always seems to manage to end up leaning back on some sort of fixed object like a pillar with the girls huddled around him. The sub communication of this is great… it’s very much like they are trying to pull him. I need to observe how the sly fox maneuvers himself into this position.
  5. He goes into each set with full intent to SNL. He’s not just chatting or practising.  One of the first things he does in a set is establish logistics. If there are poor logistics for an SNL, he instantly ejects. Very efficient.
  6. He feels no need to win the girl over. If the girl is stood there talking to him, he just assumes the lay. He makes no verbal attempt to win her over. There are no magic lines spoken by him to get the girl. In short, he assumes attraction.

Stats since 1st August:
27 approaches
3 number closes
3 kiss closes
0 f closes


I remember that it wasn’t all that long ago that I’d be standing around in a bar or on the street wracking my brains for a good opener to use on a girl I’d seen. This is a phase many guys new to pickup go through, and it’s the same for chodes. It is, of course, completely the wrong mindset.

Chodes think chat up lines get you girls. They think if you go in with a good opening line, the girl will be impressed. She’ll love your wit,  like you, and you pull. Firstly, this is erroneous thinking. The opener is just an ice breaker. It’s just basically saying hello. It’s what comes after that which defines whether or not you fuck the girl. Secondly, the need for a good opener shows weak inner game. A guy believes he has to say something witty to start a conversation with a girl, in order to get her to like him. He can’t rely on his presence alone to open a set. The thought of going in with nothing but his personality laid bare scares him, so he seeks a magic bullet in the form of a ‘guaranteed’ chat up line. Of course, if there were any chat up lines guaranteed to pull, they’d get famous, all guys would used them, and no one would ever go home alone again.

If openers don’t open sets, what does?

Presence. That’s what I call it anyway. Many within the seduction community would call it value.

What do I mean by presence? How do you generate a strong presence?

To me presence is just what you sub communicate about yourself. These sub communications come in the form of body language, eye contact, facial expression and voice tonality.

Weak presence / low value

These behaviors will lead to a low percentage of sets hooking.

  • Timid when it comes to invading the personal space of the girl/s he is opening
  • Small, submissive body language like he’s trying to hide away
  • Rapport seeking voice tonality, quietly spoken
  • Big, supplicating, ‘please like me’ smile on his face and weak eye contact

Strong presence / high value

These behaviors will lead to a high percentage of sets hooking, and will get you attraction all on their on reasonably often.

  • Not shy about invading girl’s personal space. Gets stuck in when he opens sets
  • Strong, masculine body language. He won’t hide away from the girls
  • Voice is loud and slow. Voice tonality is somewhere between neutral and breaking rapport
  • Cocky grin on his face, strong eye contact

It’s all about what these things sub communicate about the type of man you are. While I wouldn’t go as far as to say words are completely irrelevant, bad words and a strong presence will do better than good words and a weak presence. I’m still working on my non verbals, tweaking them all the time. I’ll do a post soon on what I consider to be strong non verbals, and how to go about getting them.

Don’t spend ages trying to work out what the best opener is. Just go in with good non verbals, and “Hello” will be good enough.

Stats since 1st July:
60 approaches
8 number closes
3 kiss closes
1 f closes

I thought I had my day game stop (when I stop a moving target) down, but I’m starting to reconsider this. I always come in from the side of the girl, almost a bit behind her and then tap her on the arm. I then deliver my opener. Many people have told me that this is wrong, and I need to get ahead of her, spin around and then face her, blocking her path. This always seemed a bit over the top to me.

I always argued that my problem lately in day game wasn’t stopping the girls. 80 – 90% of girls will stop and listen to my opener, with most of them sticking around to exchange a few sentences after that. My problem is hooking the sets.

I consider a set to be hooked when the girl is giving me her full attention, has stopped wanting to walk away from me, and the two of us are having a conversation. Most girls fail to hook for me, they make their excuses and walk off soon after I finish my opener. Looking back at my spreadsheet, my hook rate is maybe 10%.

I always thought this was a problem with my verbal skills. I wasn’t saying the right stuff to engage them and hook them. Although I think this is partially true I think they way I go about stopping them may play a bigger part in this than I previously thought. Here’s why.

A prerequisite to hooking a girl in day game is killing her momentum. A girl when walking down the street has both mental and physical momentum. Her physical momentum is the fact that her body is physically moving in a certain direction. I think it is obvious that you need to stop this physical momentum in order to hook the girl. You can’t have a conversation with her when you’re stood still but she never physically stops. Her mental momentum is not as obvious, but it’s still just as important. In her mind, before you stop her she is thinking about where she’s going. While she’s still thinking, “I’m on my way to Tescos” she still has mental momentum, and in her mind she is just about to walk off. You have to engage her fully in conversation to rid her brain of this thought. Until this is done you can’t hook her into a conversation in which she is fully present mentally.

I think really getting in front of a girl, rather than coming in from the side is much more likely to kill her momentum. I’ve been killing physical momentum fairly well, but not so much the mental momentum. This is part of the reason I’m getting a low hook rate. I don’t think there’s anything that will quite kill a girls momentum as quickly as getting right in front of her, and shamelessly blocking her path. It’s also very high value / alpha. It sub-communicates that what you want (to talk to her) is the most important thing, more important than her getting to where she is going.

I’m currently in the process of modifying my day game stop so I get in front of the girl. Cue comedy moments where I fuck my timing up / misjudge distances and she ends up walking straight into me.

Stats since 1st July:
53 approaches
7 number closes
3 kiss closes
1 f closes